Hello listeners! Today we discuss the oversexualization of our youth, rape culture, and how men and women should view each other. And Matt reveals his secret identity...because he's Batman!
Interesting discussion on Rape culture. And the oversexualization of our community. I liked the discussion but might suggest that the next time this topic is looked at you guys discuss some more of the consequences of things like pornography many studies show how it leads to more violent behavior and in almost all cases serial rapists and killers are addicted to pornography. Now there is something else mentally wrong with these individuals but the pornography helps set off this something. Also I would like the topic of being a Man to be delved into further and what makes a real man. I would love to here both of your thoughts on that topic. I appreciate the honesty of this discussion but also wanted to here what the final common ground was. I really enjoy when you wrap up with what both sides can civilly agree on. Keep the podcast coming. This is Nate the also Mormon semi-conservative from Detroit Signing off.
While I have not made a tremendous study of the research, I would like to point out that correlation is not causation, and that we as a research community have never really gotten a handle on what makes a serial killer - though I can tell you that the vast, vast majority are males.
I won't refer to a monolithically liberal position on pornography, as I am not convinced there is one, but I would say that my concerns about it aren't related to serial killers and serial rapists, but rather to human trafficking, generalized exploitation, and also to people who watching it getting a very unhealthy demonstration of what a sexual relationship between adults ought to be.
There is a dangerous tide of misogyny on the Internet, including even rape/death threats simply for expressing an opinion, and porn is likely not making that any better.
I was surprised that Dan enumerated three of the major reasons for punishment, but not the fourth: He got incapacitation, rehabilitation, and retribution, but he missed deterrence.
I thought Dan was getting at something important when he talked about a connection between what liberals refer to as rape culture and opposition to abortion that Dan didn't quite articulate. I've seen at least some conservatives argue that someone's right to bodily autonomy is diminished after they choose to have sex because getting pregnant is a natural consequence of sex. But I've also heard arguments that having sex is a "natural consequence" in a similar way of e.g. wearing revealing clothing / inviting someone into a private place / drinking alcohol, that doing those things means that ongoing, affirmative, and enthusiastic consent to sex is implicit or unnecessary. (Not saying that the former argument logically implies the latter. But I do think they are on similar lines.)
The topic of rape and sexual assault is a frustrating one. A lot of the liberal arguments have to do with the importance of subtext (the concept of social licence to operate is very relevant) and are presented in opposition to conservative arguments whose overt content seems like common sense (though in some cases that appearance is deceptive). So it's easy for that to degrade into "you're just using this as a shibboleth" on the conservative side versus "he said sibboleth, get him!" on the liberal. It's definitely a case where liberals have felt the need to use exaggerated rhetoric just in an attempt to yank the locus of the discussion.
I think it's a good observation that sexaulization and rape culture are connected. A culture where sex is commodified is one where the importance of consent can be easily undermined.
I can see why Dan is uncomfortable with the word choice in that "women civilize men" line. But certainly I'm glad you pointed to that topic as a common ground. Widespread loneliness is bad for a society. And I think it's true that serious relationships civilize people. Serious relationships means making shared life plans with someone different from yourself, and that involves cultivating (in yourself and your partner) all sorts of positive traits.
Interesting discussion on Rape culture. And the oversexualization of our community. I liked the discussion but might suggest that the next time this topic is looked at you guys discuss some more of the consequences of things like pornography many studies show how it leads to more violent behavior and in almost all cases serial rapists and killers are addicted to pornography. Now there is something else mentally wrong with these individuals but the pornography helps set off this something.
ReplyDeleteAlso I would like the topic of being a Man to be delved into further and what makes a real man. I would love to here both of your thoughts on that topic. I appreciate the honesty of this discussion but also wanted to here what the final common ground was. I really enjoy when you wrap up with what both sides can civilly agree on.
Keep the podcast coming.
This is Nate the also Mormon semi-conservative from Detroit Signing off.
While I have not made a tremendous study of the research, I would like to point out that correlation is not causation, and that we as a research community have never really gotten a handle on what makes a serial killer - though I can tell you that the vast, vast majority are males.
ReplyDeleteI won't refer to a monolithically liberal position on pornography, as I am not convinced there is one, but I would say that my concerns about it aren't related to serial killers and serial rapists, but rather to human trafficking, generalized exploitation, and also to people who watching it getting a very unhealthy demonstration of what a sexual relationship between adults ought to be.
There is a dangerous tide of misogyny on the Internet, including even rape/death threats simply for expressing an opinion, and porn is likely not making that any better.
I was surprised that Dan enumerated three of the major reasons for punishment, but not the fourth: He got incapacitation, rehabilitation, and retribution, but he missed deterrence.
ReplyDeleteI thought Dan was getting at something important when he talked about a connection between what liberals refer to as rape culture and opposition to abortion that Dan didn't quite articulate. I've seen at least some conservatives argue that someone's right to bodily autonomy is diminished after they choose to have sex because getting pregnant is a natural consequence of sex. But I've also heard arguments that having sex is a "natural consequence" in a similar way of e.g. wearing revealing clothing / inviting someone into a private place / drinking alcohol, that doing those things means that ongoing, affirmative, and enthusiastic consent to sex is implicit or unnecessary. (Not saying that the former argument logically implies the latter. But I do think they are on similar lines.)
The topic of rape and sexual assault is a frustrating one. A lot of the liberal arguments have to do with the importance of subtext (the concept of social licence to operate is very relevant) and are presented in opposition to conservative arguments whose overt content seems like common sense (though in some cases that appearance is deceptive). So it's easy for that to degrade into "you're just using this as a shibboleth" on the conservative side versus "he said sibboleth, get him!" on the liberal. It's definitely a case where liberals have felt the need to use exaggerated rhetoric just in an attempt to yank the locus of the discussion.
I think it's a good observation that sexaulization and rape culture are connected. A culture where sex is commodified is one where the importance of consent can be easily undermined.
I can see why Dan is uncomfortable with the word choice in that "women civilize men" line. But certainly I'm glad you pointed to that topic as a common ground. Widespread loneliness is bad for a society. And I think it's true that serious relationships civilize people. Serious relationships means making shared life plans with someone different from yourself, and that involves cultivating (in yourself and your partner) all sorts of positive traits.